Smiley

Do flatties look like shoes?

May the Good Lord bless and keep you during this holiday season and through the New Year!

Please join us at 8:30 P.M. (EST) on December 27th, 2014 (0130 December 28th (GMT)) in #readers_corner, for a discussion the ethical issues involved in the use of "ghost writers" in literature. We will be talking about the implications of the use of dead writers names by authors using the famous name to promote sales of their works, as well as the use by famous people of ghost writers to pen the autobiographies of those famous people. A general outline of the topics for discussion can be found in the forum entry: http://www.koach.com/forum/index.php?/topic/7926-possible-discussion-topic-feedback-requested/ Meeting Place: Webchat: http://koach.com/cha...=readers_corner mIRC Users: /server -m chat3.koach.com:6667 -j #readers_corner You won't have to prepare for the chat, no homework required. I hope we can just discuss our personal feeling about the issues involved, and maybe make some comments about works we have read that have used ghost writers. It will be a good opportunity for good friends to sit around a warm monitor and have a glass of mulled wine or hot lemonade together, Hope to see you for our last Readers' Corner chat of the year. In the meanwhile, have a happy Hannuka, merry Christmas, and the best of New Years. Log attached: #readers_corner 20141227.txt

I didn't know that mallards migrated all the way to oz.

Try cream of celery or cream of asparagus soup instead.

Bowing to your desires, I have prepared a tentative outline of the general direction I would expect the chat to take, to include a rough outline of the general kinds of opinions which might be espoused by various chatters. Here is that tentative outline...please feel free to comment on it (gently and politely of course--I have very tender sensibilities). Proposed Protocol for December 27th Chat (I just love that word "protocol", it sounds so darned officious. It's more ambiguous than "agenda" so it gives us a lot of wiggle room.) TOPIC: Pen Names, Ghost Writing, and Plagarism I hope that the chat will consider three things (and we won't have any experts on copyright laws or publishing house/newspaper guidelines to their contributors--so we will be using our own consciences and our common sense to guide our judgement): 1: The ethical considerations of publication of written works attributed to deceased authors or to famous persons other than the writer. Considerations: Books continue to be published under the names of respected writers long after their death, some of those works being edited / rewritten versions of drafts or outlines written by the deceased before their demise, some being reprints of works published by the deceased writer under a pseudonym or pen name before they became established as a professional writer, and some based solely on a situation or set of characters initially invented by the deceased author. Dead Authors whose names are being (or have been) used on newly published works include: J.R.R.Tolkien, Isaac Asimov, Robert Ludlum, Douglas Adams, Michael Crichton, Tom Clancy, and Louis L'Amour. (Can you think of any others?) Often the purchasers of those works are unaware that they were written by some other writer than the one listed on the cover. A variety of labeling techniques are used in attibution to include for example: Robert Ludlum's The Borne Redundancy (actual author's name appearing in very small print somewhere on the copyright page) The Silmarillion by J.R.R.Tolkien as edited by his son My Favorite Short Stories by Isaac Asimov as selected by ..... Tom Clancy's Ops Center--Terror in the Desert by ....... (Have you ever purchased a book then been disappointed when it turns out to be inferior to what you would expect by the famous author?) Our Opinions: for example, should there be a standardized method for labelling such works so that the reader knows it was not written by the named author? Does the use of a dead writer's settings, characters, or series name entail plagarism? Does the use of the dead writer's characters make it easier on us to get into and enjoy the plot without having to learn a whole list of new characters? 2. The ethical questions involved in the use of "ghost writers" Considerations: Many works are attributed to famous (or notorious) persons when they are actually written by someone else. It gives the reader reason to suspect that at least some of the autobiographical or philosophical works attributed to those persons are in fact well written stories for which the famous author takes credit. Examples include: Speaches made by politicians which are written by professional writers, autobiographies penned by someone other than the subject of the bio, and stories, books, novels, attributed to famous persons. (Can we trust that Hillary Clinton is the actual author of It Takes a Village ?) Often the Autobiographies include the disclaimer, "...as told to <name of the ghost writer> What about the recent spate of books attributed to <Famous Author and not-so-famous author>. James Patterson and Clive Custler seem to have an inordinate number of co-authors. How much input work does the famous named writer actually contribute to the collaboration? Again, Our Opinions: 3. And lastly, what about the series books which use a house name (generic pen name) for a group of writers, or writers using multiple pen names? Examples of house names: Elery Queen (mysteries), Carolyn Keene (Nancy Drew mystery books), Franklin W. Dixon (The Hardy Boys mystery books), and Laura Lee Hope (The Bopsy Twins series). I hesitate to mention (and must admit to complete ignorance) of the various house names used in the various series books involving romance -- gothic or otherwise. Examples of multiple pen names: Nora Roberts ( J.D. Robb) and Harry Turtledove (H. Turtletaub) In all the above, does it make any real difference to the reader? Does it make any difference to the serious scholar studying the works of a specific author or literary movement? Have we personally read any books written by now established authors that were written under other names (usually early in their career) then republished under their current name--if so, was the work as polished and interesting as we expected from the famous named author?

And the words are those associated with the music for the bugle call, Taps.

ROFL.

Please join us at 8:30 P.M. (EST) on December 20th, 2014 (0130 December 21st (GMT)) in #readers_corner, for a discussion of the short story The Drawstring Detective by Nik Houser. Houser is a relatively new author, at least to me. He recently has had works accepted by The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction (one of the premier Sci Fi Pulps). This offering is a humorous one, but one with a serious side as well. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. The Story can be found on line at: http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/drawstring-detective/ Meeting Place: Webchat: http://koach.com/cha...=readers_corner mIRC Users: /server -m chat3.koach.com:6667 -j #readers_corner I will bring a gallon of egg nog, you should bring a bottle of your favorite flavoring (rum, bourbon, or brandy are considered traditional). Anyone with a plate of warm cookies will also be quite welcome. I hope to see you all there. Log attached: readers corner log 20 Dec 2014.txt

I used a number of web sites. the one sited in basic post is .http://shelf-life.ew.com/2009/10/28/asimov-robot-trilogy-reichert/ Two useful wiki's are at .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_name and .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter note the . in front of the url, to prevent it from truncating. just delete the . and paste into browser. I also did a bit of reading on copyright issues, to clarify, in my own mind, the issue of using dead authors' names, or for that matter living persons' names in works of fiction and or as "co-authors" of new material. check .http://www.iuniverse.com/ExpertAdvice/PublishingLaw/FAQ.aspx as a quick summary of copyrights and how they work.

JohnB suggested that we might want to have a chat about some other related issues than specific short stories. He mentioned the recent trend for deceased authors to have books published posthumously (either works previously rejected by authors, ghost written (pun intended) by other authors having access to outlines or drafts of books by the deceased writer, writers using the deceased writer's by line with permission of the estate of the deceased, etc.) There seems to be a broad spectrum of such works handled in any number of ways by publishers. Tom Clancy's characters (Jack Ryan and his family, as well as some of Ryan's cronies from earlier novels) are being reused by other authors and published with titles such as "Tom Clancy's Ops Center--Terror In the Night" by Hermione Qumquat. Clearly our imaginary Hermione as well as the publisher have no desire to fool the readers into believing that Tom Clancy had any input into the book, whatsoever. "Isaac Asimov may have died in 1992, but that doesn’t mean he can’t still publish new books. The sci-fi giant’s estate signed a deal last week with Penguin’s Berkley imprint for a new I, Robot prequel trilogy penned by Mickey Zucker Reichert..."1 "...Michael Cricthon’s Pirate Latitudes, an adventure story set in 17th-century Jamaica apparently completed before his death, as well as Kurt Vonnegut’s story collectionLook at the Birdie, William Styron’s The Suicide Run, and Vladimir Nabokov’s unfinished final novel The Original of Laura. Signs suggest that none of these authors have drawers of unpublished material quite as deep as Western storyteller Louis L’Amour, whose estate produced a whopping 15 new books after his 1988 death..." 2 There are numerous series of novels published under a pen name owned by the publishing house but used by a collection of various authors. The Nancy Drew and Hardy Boy's young people's books have been written by many different authors, all using the same pen name. There are many well known authors who use several pen names depending on the target audience of the work. Nora Roberts (also known as J. D. Robb) is one example. I have done some research into the topic and have found various legal and ethical opinions about the use of ghost writers, pen names, and similar issues. (I started by googling pen names, ghost writers, and 'use of deceased authors' names") I also checked out"wikipoedia" for pen names and ghost writer. So, do we want to devote a chat to an open discussion of how we feel about the issues, pro and/or con. We could pick a night other than our regular #readers_corner scheduled meeting time, devote one of normally scheduled chat's to the issue, confine our discussion to comments posted to this thread in the forums, or forget the idea entirely. Please provide your comments. Thanks. 1 http://shelf-life.ew.com/2009/10/28/asimov-robot-trilogy-reichert/ 2 ibid.

I didn't see that one coming. rofl

Please join us at 8:30 P.M. (EST) on December 13th, 2014 (0130 December 14th (GMT))in #readers_corner, for a discussion of the short story No Hero at Home by Jon Cleary. Jon Cleary is a well known Australian author best known in America as the writer of the novel The Sundowners made into a movie staring Robert Mitchum and Deborah Kerr. This short story was published in a newspaper in the late 40's or early 50's, shortly after the end of the Second World War. Nan provided an .rtf text file of the newspaper article and we have also converted that text file into .pdf format for your convenience. Both the .rtf and .pdf versions of the story are attached below. I think your will enjoy the tale, and our Australian chatters will be able to enlighten us as to the cross-cultural situation described in the story. Meeting Place: Webchat: http://koach.com/cha...=readers_corner mIRC Users: /server -m chat3.koach.com:6667 -j #readers_corner Bring a few beers (Fosters if you can find them at the local grocery), or an Irish coffee to keep your cockles warm during the chat. And as ever, please bring a friend to share our discussion. RTF VERSION: READER STORY - No Hero at Home -- Jon Cleary.rtf PDF VERSION: No Hero at Home by Jon Cleary.pdf LOG ATTACHED: readers corner log Dec13 2014.txt

I sort of saw that one coming. Speaking of mushrooms, Stormy and I are expert. We were both mushrooms for a few years. They kept us in the dark and gave us a steady diet of BS.

Please join us at 8:30 P.M. (EST) on December 6th, 2014 (0130 December 7th (GMT)) in #readers_corner, for a discussion of the short story What Pavel Found by Geoffrey W. Cole. The things we do for love...our protagonist gives up virtual heaven to live in hell with the one he loves. I guess this is a science fiction story, but it is much, much more. It is not a "fun" story (no jokes or gratuitous happy endings), but it is a powerfully thought provoking one that you will be glad you have read. (Yes, Virginia, there is a difference between "happy" and "glad".) Please note: The story is on several web pages (pp 14 though 18 inclusive). At the bottom of each page you will need to click the link " continues " or the following page number to navigate to the continuation of the story. The story is available on line at: http://www.bdlit.com/what-pavel-found.html Meeting Place: Webchat: http://koach.com/cha...=readers_corner mIRC Users: /server -m chat3.koach.com:6667 -j #readers_corner Bring a nice cup of cocoa (marshmallows optional), or an Irish coffee to keep your cockles warm during the chat. And as ever, please bring a friend to share our chat. LOG ATTACHED: readers log 6 Dec 2014.txt

Sounds like last Saturday's short story.

Because of numerous family commitments over the long Thanksgiving weekend making it problematic for any suitable chat leader to guarantee his/her presence for the chat, we will postpone our next meeting until the following weekend ( December 6th). Watch this forum for information on the next story to be discussed. See comment below for story and log

A German Engineer just started his own business in Afghanistan and is looking for investors. He's making land mines that look like prayer mats. It's doing well. He says prophets are going through the roof.

Its a murder mystery, sort of, Patsy. You would enjoy it.

Please join us at 8:30 P.M. (EST) on November 22th, 2014 (0130 November 23rd (GMT), in #readers_corner, for a discussion of the short story The Imperfect Patsy by John Dromey. From the sublime to the ridiculous! To kill or not to kill, that is the question, From our last discussion of a serious contemplation of the morality of euthanasia or murder for love, this week's selection deals with inadvertent assassinations in a light hearted, indeed almost frivolous manner. It's an easy, fun read which should provide us with a number of opportunities to take cheap shots ------ err well aimed criticism of a humorous tale. Please note: The story is on several web pages (pp 27 though 31 inclusive). At the bottom of each page you will need to click the link " continues " or the following page number to navigate to the continuation of the story. The story is available on line at: http://www.bdlit.com/the-imperfect-patsy.html Meeting Place: Webchat: http://koach.com/cha...=readers_corner mIRC Users: /server -m chat3.koach.com:6667 -j #readers_corner This is a good story to discuss over a glass of peppermint schnaps or hard cider with a few soda crackers to absorb the excess liquid. I'll bring the crackers, bring your own beverages. And please, because of the crackers, no chatting in bed. I hope to see you there, and don't hesitate to bring a friend. Log attached: readers log 11-22-14.txt

Please join us at 8:30 P.M. (EST) on November 15th, 2014 (0130 November 16th (GMT), in #readers_corner, for a discussion of the short story Patron Saint of the Confederacy by John Kachuba. (Note for folks in exotic time zones: USA daylight savings time ended this morning at 2 a.m.) It's a contemporary tale exploring the motivations and emotions of three friends involved in a somewhat atypical menage a trois. I believe you will find the story interesting, and I am confident it will provide for a spirited and entertaining chat. The story is available on line at: http://gemini-magazine.com/kachubapatronsaint.html Meeting Place: Webchat: http://koach.com/cha...=readers_corner mIRC Users: /server -m chat3.koach.com:6667 -j #readers_corner 6667 This is a good tale to share with a glass of cabernet savignon. I'll bring a virtual bottle to our chat. Hope to see you all there. Log of chat attached: readers log 11-15-2014.txt

That's a painful pun.

It looks like just another Webcrawler to me

Roast Armadillo with stuffing is a WestTexas delicacy. Armadillo pie, however, is not all that popular.

I bet that I am a gooder writer then you.